DEIMOS 8/17/95 Tape one? [Tape two] #three months, december, january and february. #So what will you be doing during that period? #Well, anything that we need to do, we either are going to try and improve our little clean room down here or we will do it out at Davis and the project office for the remodel has agreed to pay for our work up there at Davis. #We also need Bill to run those little silguard samples through his spectrotometer again to see if they have aged. There is no use worrying about this material if it has aged after a year, so its an action item. #So the spectrotometer is upstairs, disassembled. #Dis- assembled? #Move on to collimator I guess. #Collimator. Kodak has a P.O. from us to generate the concave curve of the collimator mirror, I have added two more operations to that P.O. One is to put a plast on the edge about a quarter inch wide at least perpendicular to the axis as a means of aligning the mirror and the cell. They have agreed to do that for nothing. #Oh, that's nice. #And I have asked them to put a hole in the center. Originally I have planned to put the hole in the center here after the mirror was finished, but after looking at the design of the hole, we need to put a plug in the hole and stay in plane with the surface as I am working. So they are going to put a hole in for $877. And they are expecting a mirror to be delivered to them from the shop by 8/25, and they are quoting about a five week turn around time, so by 8/1 we should have it here. #Have we thought about where this hole should be relative to the edge, the accurracy and how we are going to use this hole and the alignment procedure and so on. #Yeah, I specified ecosentricity?? of 20 thousands of an inch. #Where does that number come from? #It came from the error budget that we made out before and just looking at the design of the cell and how it is held in the middle. #What goes wrong if the hole isn't in the middle? #We'll have a little bit more wobble in the counterweight, that's about it, according to Dave, 20 thousands of an inch is miles for the results. #Yeah I was thinking it is too loose, why not press them a little bit more? #I don't think they will make it to 20 thousandths I think they will make it to five. #Ok. #And then the collimator cell, we may as well talk about. #They are in the process of making the cell as we speak, they have the materials all there and they have the drawings in the shop and I think they are working on it. #And we have a concrete replica of the collimator mirror? #Oh, yes. If the zero dewar doesn't work, then we have some concrete backup. #And the model, we are buying a steel membrane or a bulk- head so that the ?? cell and concrete version ?? model that way we can test the operation of the mechanism itself. #That's good. #We will be able to rotate it in the model, you can't very easily outside. #So when's the date for that? #For being put together? #yes. #I am not sure there is a schedule on it at this point, but probably the middle of next month. A lot of this is kind of ongoing with some of the other things, the slitmask handler model, they kind of jump back and forth between, depending on what materials we have on hand at the time. #I kind of skipped an item here: the collimation plan. We are still intending to have the meeting in september, I think we actually have dates for that meeting. #Twentieth or twenty first? #Twentieth and twenty first. , however my 120 inch observing got changed, so I am going to be able to come for the twentieth only and my suggestion is that we just plan on setting aside a whole day, start early on the twenti- eth, and let's see where we are at that point, and maybe if we are not finished a smaller group can pick it up at that point. What I am suggesting is that we don't try here and now to come up with another date for the second day of the meeting, rather see how the first day goes. Does that seem reasonable. #Yes. #Ok, I think we should start calling it a different name than the collimation plan. I think we should call it the alignment plan, because there is nothing collimated about this, once you get past the collimator mirror. #Just a little aside, I took another go at Jack's document. What do you call that document? #Error budget, though Harlan hates to hear that word. #And so we are almost through with that. This has everything to do with the alignment plan because there are all kinds of tolerances in there that we are supposed to line things up to. So what I hope to do before this september 20th meeting is to extract from this document which has the kind of stuff in it, the kind of key concepts that I thought that we would need in order to discuss an alignment scheme on september 20. #Having an error budget, we are simply in step with everybody else, it doesn't bother me much at all. #I have learned a lot by doing this. And we will have to arrange a room, here on campus? #This is really the ideal room, we can ??? out? it has lots of blackboards, there is room to throw things at one another. #Can you see if we can schedule this room for sep- tember 20, all day long? Not right now. I think we will move on to something that I missed out on the last meeting and that was the filter wheel for the camera, this is something of a change of con- cept. #Yeah, we missed this last time. We were trying to do some alternative studies for putting the filters into the camer, and the original concept was a slide, as I think you remember, and we have changed that to a filter wheel, which has a number of advantages, one is it's just more com- pact. We don't have this big windmill out there rolling around. Also, it removes a counterweight, and also we now have access to all of the filters positions, not just the ones on the ends. #That's good. #The reason that was not used before is that they were having a time trying to figure out how we would secure the dewar to the camera with the filter in between, securely enough so that nothing ever ?? relative movement. But by using a virtual center, in other words just kind of a donut in the middle, we can actually get both the inside and the outside of the filter wheel, that problem goes away. And since we don't have to hold the filters as accurately as we have to hold the dewar, a little bit of movement just in the filter itself, isn't such a big problem. So by using a hollow bearing, I think we can do that. The question now has come up as what shape should the filters be, should they be rectangular, round, that sort of thing, So we need to decide that before I can go too much farther on the filter design. #Ok, well Brian is the person who should speak up now. #I did some preliminary looking at it, and in the first order it doesn't make you a lot of dif- ference either way. If you have a six inch round filter or a six inch square filter.. #But it's going to be six inches. #Yeah, any bigger isn't going to do you any good, and any smaller and you are going to forget something. #How much clearance does your number, six inches, leave us. #I am not exactly sure, partly because I don't have a map of where on the chip the field is ending up. Jack is going to give me that. #You didn't get it yet. #Well, it could be in my mail box, but I haven't checked it yet. I have to look at that and figure out exactly what I am doing. But loosely what I do is I just figure out what size shape is going to cover everything and in one case I got 195 inches radius, so.. #Why don't we talk a little more about this, do you have anymore to look at, any more calculations or should it wait until Jack has given you numbers. #Well I should do it carefully, that wasn't a very careful check. That was making sure that we can do the problem. #Does it make a big difference to you whether or not it is six or six and a half inches. #Yes. #So you really need to know this number. And another question is, supposing you're right, supposing it is 2.95, do we pick six inches for the size of the filter? #I thought that six was sort of a standard size. #I think that instead of picking something other than a standard size. #I think that shop filters were seven inches. They were when I looked a while ago. So I think we had better look into what standards the filter sizes are, because I don't think it is guaranteed to be six. #It would be ugly if we had a substandard size and we had to do work on each of the filters that we need. #So have you guys looked into filter sizes? #How many filters will fit in the wheel at six. #Is it seven? #We are still keeping the number seven, we haven't changed that. #So this is six plus a clear. #No, we have an open in there. #Uh, its a piece of glass. They all have to have the same optical thickness. It's not a hole. #You don't get rid of two optical ?? #No, on some modes we do have an open, we use this to go out of focus. Then you would take your user filter out, but we don't have. #How will be practical change the wheel or the individul filters. #No, because the virtual bearing you can't change it, you would have to take the dewar off to get it back on. #And do you have a feeling for what some break points are, in terms of sizes. Have you laid things out enough to know that if it's six it's fine, but if it's seven it's hopeless? #Well, the only thing I did is that I experimented with more filters rather than bigger respond? filters. #And what is the size of the filters you are using now? #Six inches. #It's not going to change by very much from six inches, when I go sit down and go do it carefully, we are talking an eighth of an inch in one direction or another. #Except if they come standard seven inches. #You don't even have to ask me at that point because I don't have any ?? #I can look into seven inches. #Well don't do it yet, let me get my facts straight, which I will do today. #Can I take any more filters than seven. I mean now that you have gone to a wheel or decide to run ?? #No, start getting more than that the wheel starts getting so big that you end up with a huge hole in the side of the cylinder and you begin to effect the structure. #That is in fact why we ran into this question while the structure was being designed. We either had to leave two openings for a slide through, or a single opening at the top. Well, its a small diameter hitting a big diameter and you increase it by one more filter and you probably double that slot. #Oh, really, that's interesting. #Just because that is the geometry. There is kind of a little door that you have for access to the filter, you are not going to get any smaller than seven inches for the slot. Another reason this has come up, we would like to know what the solid cone looks like going to the ccd is because we are building a shutter just behind the filter and whether we make it a six inch square, seven inch square or eight inch square effect a lot about how fast that shutter is going to ... whether it's going to be a dark slide or a shutter. We don't want to make it an inch too big. #No, that is a lot of extra titanium to snap around. #And it's just a single wheel, it's not two. #That's rights. #So we have to change the electronics to a rotary stage from a sliding stage. #Which should be easier. #At this point it is all on paper anyway, so. #But there are no end limit switches. #Yeah, it's just a continuous rotation. #And it is faster to go from any position now to any other position. There are a lot of nice things about a wheel. #Ok, we can move on. Slitmask, slitmask cutter, slitmask handler. Let's start with the handler. #I looked at the report that I gave you five weeks ago and I will have to say the same thing in that we are waiting for material to fin- ish the model of the slitmask handler. #Actually the material is here, it got here last night. #What was the material? #Some aluminum that we ordered under the blue banner system. #It came from a different supplier, there are all sorts of interesting things about that order. The good news is that we finally got it. #I think that the so-called Frank Melsheimer caterpillar system I think we are going .. there are some changes we have made in the last five weeks. It's alignment of these ten positions moving around a chain and sprocket system as it rotates in space, the chain wiggles around, and it just needs control. We are building in more tracks, more clearance here and there, learning about how the chain behaves. I think it is going to be a good system. #Do you have a ten- sioner of some sort in it. We have several tensioners now, and you have to pull pretty tight to keep these conveyor links, because they are only 3/8s of an inch long. You have to pull real hard to keep the weight of the slitmask in its holder from moving. #We are bending shafts at this point, by tensioning it so hard. So we are adding other things, guides, to help out. Anyway, the package that we have allocated for this device seems to be big enough, so that we don't have to move the drive disk around and but up from the telescope or those kind of things. And the goal was to say let's go ahead with the grating handler design, because we now know where we have our ?? #You think you're there? #Yeah, we haven't hit any show stoppers with this mask handler yet. #And at this point we don't anticipate there will be one, We are getting fairly confident this is way is is .. #I think so. #That is the handler part of that item. #Question, where are we going to be on that sub- ject by the SSC meeting? Will it be any different from that? #Only in that I think that our confi- dence level will be higher. #We will probably have had a chance to build up the sort of pocket, because we now have that material. #Part of the holster is the alignment mechanism that keeps them from flopping around, and we will need all that in place. #Some ???????? #Are you going to want that driven? No I don't think there is very much point of that, we can put a drill motor on that and see what happens when it goes around, driving it by hand is just useful right now. #Maybe even a little more useful, because you can sort of feel things. #You can measure torque easier with your hand. #Ok. Slitmask? #Nothing has been done with the slitmasks. although our slitmask cutting philosophy has changed, and this is worth writing down: the laser cutting tech- nique is going to be abandoned. #It is starting to look very certain that we are going to do. At this point the only outstanding issue..because we now have cut considerably thicker material than we would cut and put the 15,000 slots in it and there was no real problem with doing that and these are very good slots. #Well, this raises in my mind what the thickness of our material should be. #And what it should be. We prefer to go to aluminum. #That is no problem with that, but there seems to be quite a difference in robustness of these two particular pieces. This is the fifteen thou- sandths, and this one is full of burrs. They may clean out. #Well, Eric can anticipate that that one would be as clean as this one. This one was just a que sera type thing, and there was no effort. #I withdraw that. But there is a robustness issue and I am just guessing, but it seems to me that the thickness is going to have a lot to do with how we put this material onto the form and clamp it and how accurate it is going to be. #And how we can hold it while we are machining it.. #Yeah., all of those things. #I think that is probably what we will end up using. You have always wanted to be able to store these after you have used them. #Yep, and you can imagine what storing that thin one there, in a briefcase on the way home from Hawaii. It could easily crumple out of shape. #Now, fifteen thousandths, because of its actual thickness, #I think we decided that 20 thousandths was the absolute upper limit. But I.. #It is conceivable talking about ten, because maybe ten is the happy compromise for everyone. #Ten is not a magic number either, who knows, maybe a year from now, or ten years, you might want to try something else, which is in fact those are Lure?? masks, nothing holding them at that thickness, They used to be 30 thousandths, those very same masks. Fram doesn't care. #We don't even have to decide this century. #So, really one of the only outstanding issues with using the milling machine concept is how you actually hold this material. and it may be that we are going to go ahead and buy some sort of air hold down and experiment with that. Joe Miller had said, I don't want to overstate this, but Cara may have to be looking at this for LRIS, if they do, then that will give us some experience for Deimos, at least. #I'm not sup- posed to tell you this, but that mask took eight minutes. Now a laser cut probably would have taken four or five times that. #Why aren't you supposed to tell us this? #Because then Jeff is afraid you will want them all done here. All LRIS, from now on, forever. #That is why we should encourage getting a cutter for Cara. #But we have worried about the laser machine making sixteen masks a night. #Yeah, it was very marginal. #This looks like it has lots of advantages. #And we should encourage Judy to talk to us, because we quite interested in supporting her, especially if we can get a machine... #Why would it come here instead of going there? #Because it is here already. #There is at least some rationale for buying in fact two machines one way or another, so that we can support them technically in Hawaii. There are some things that go on cutting a mask, unless you have some hands on things you can work with, it is not going to be apparent at all. #I am a lit- tle confused as to what the overall plan should be, basically we have two devices that are rather similar in their requirements for masks. The main thing is that one device requires a lot larger bed than the other device. Somehow it seems silly to me if Cara went ahead and spent a fair amount of money getting a machine for Low Res that solves the near term Low res, but isn't the machine that we will ultimately be able to use or be upgradable to that. #One of the reasons we would like very much to be involved in that ?? is to help them size the bed. #Right. #There are machines out there like Bridgeports that have 28 inches of travel and there is a machine that has thirty inches of travel, and you want to make sure that they don't make their breakpoint at 28, because that won't work for Deimos. But the 30 inche one that Erich Horn went and looked at will work. #Who is handling this for Cara? Presumably Judy is in the loop. #Katy is in the loop as far as recommenda- tions, but I am sure that Tom and other people at Cara will get involved before acquisition was made so I think that information to Tom would be very useful. # Who do you think is the best per- son to make that contact, me? #Or Erich can do it. #I can do it, because I intend to contact Judy and recommend that she look at this option that seems to be working so well, and we should just cut a mask and send it down there that they can look at to. Well, actually will send down one of the masks that we will be using. #Can we get some feedback on how good these are from the experience in Low Res. It turns out that it's very hard for us to measure these things. #So now we can measure these things pretty accurately. #Good. #What kind of measuring do you want? #How good is the thickness, over the thickness, does it meet our spec? [End of tape] Tape three #..flat anything, ?? #To the one percent level, then it get a little trickier. #One of the attractive things is that this machine is quite a bit cheaper than we had ever predicted for a laser cutter. #That is very attractive. #The other thing in the back of my mind is that if Cara is spending money, we can piggyback on what they are spending. I don't know. #It would be nice to have the same sort of machine.. in fact there are maybe three or four instruments out there requiring masks. There is a scheme to put masks in HIRES in fact. Obviously the TSi spectograph will ?? Ok. Grat- ings and grating handlers. #Last time we had a suggestion from Harlan, and it was a good one to actually get a quote one grating, so we generated a rfq for two items, two gratings, to Milton Roy, and asked them to bid on one of each or two of each and also on the zerodurb? blank. And in the mean time gathered some catalogs from two other companies. This is the ongoing project of actu- ally naming the first light gratings, #Which I think we have done actually, though I haven't done anything official. #We need some tidying up, but I think we are... #I also have some new informa- tion from Milton Roy, which I should send you a copy of. #Oh, good. They are getting real fussy about telling you what's available nowadays. #Well, it seems like there catalog is only a rough guide, and then you ask them and it turns out that you.. #There are also things in there that are not isted in their catalog that they have. #But they won't tell you that list. #They don't list everything. #But they won't give you a list of them unless..#They won't tell you unless you ask them if they have that. #You can go look at the old catalogs for things that they had and they may still have them. #We have one catalog from the ?? #Now we have other companies, I think it is a bad idea, but we are looking at other companies. Everfine or Superfine. #Well this helps us in the bidding process, if nothing else it makes the campus purchasing so much happier that, #fine. That's a good reason to do it, but I don't think there is any other reason. #Ok. now, there is yet another thing on the grating front and that is Livermore Labs, you have heard about that? #Yes. #And Joe is very keen to go over and visit these people and he is suggesting that we buy a small grating from them, possibly even a replica grating of something that we already have in Low Res that we can put it into Low Res and compare and see if we like the results. So I believe that there is going to be a visit organized over there, probably in the next month or so. I said I would like to go but only after September 13. #I will tell Joe that ?? can go. #And Ren wants to go, it's going to sort of a big car- avan. Harlan probably will go. #I actually have an email contact with them, whoever he is. #yeah, Mr. Howell. #Ok. I think that's everything. At some point we will go out and ask the other two companies for quotes on what we asked Milton Roy for. It's not apparent that they have these par- ticular gratings, they didn't send us a catalog, even as much as what Milton Roy sends us. Just statements that we will do whatever is necessary to make the gratings that you want to make you happy. #Cheaper than Milton Roy. #They didn't quite say that, but that's sort of what they implied. #Livermore implied that gratings have moved into the 21st century but Milton Roy has not. #At least in my mind, Milton Roy's process is something with a paddle wheel going down there. Not anything I think of putting any R&D effort into I think this is a bunch of really ?? peo- ple, doing a process that started in the 60's. #I understand the advantage that Livermore's gratings have is not ?? they apparently line the rulings well enough, so that when you are near the fraction limit the grading, you get very good efficiency. But we are never near the fraction of the grating. #Well, they also claim that they don't have any periodic ruling? error. Periodic ruling error puts ghosts in the spectrum, that is something we do care about. #Eventually Milton Roy's whole grat- ing facility may go away, its not apparent that this is a long-term, it's certainly longlived, but it is not apparent to me that it is long term. It will be nice to have an alternate. Tent mirror. #Ok, we are making some progress on the tent mirror, We have built a dummy mirror out of aluminum and we will start mounting it here shortly. This is a little test that we made of that little flexure bearing that you saw before. This is then pressed into an invar mounting pad and the mouting pad was glued onto this piece of zerodure, just as it will on the actual mirror. The purpose of this test was to do two things. One test this bond and how well it works in thermal cycling and also put some stresses in there to see how well it responds mechanically. We put this in the freezer a couple of times, as you see nothing broke, so the thermal cycle worked fine and then Eric put some tortional stresses on this little flexure of about 72 inch pounds which is some twenty times more then we will ever use on the mirror itself. And both the glass and the bond held fine, so it looks like we have a workable system for the actual mirror. We haven't got all the parts made yet, we haven't mounted on the model yet, but we will eventually, we are expecting the piesos in probably late October, so we won't have an operational mirror until we get the piesos in and mounted, but even- tually we should have a good system that we can try the flexure compensation system with every- thing .. #So this test here is for the two flexing mounts and the pieso mount is over here ?? separate. #That's it ??? This is just the pivots about which the mirror will rotate, we will probably do something similar to this with the camera when we do the flexure compensation at ninety degrees to the camera, except of course we don't have the problem of attaching glass there, so it is a much simpler problem. But we will probably use a similar type of flex pivot for the camera. #Why don't you pass that down to Sandy so she can see the dangerous part, the other reason for doing this in a pocket was to look at that 1/8 inch lip of glass. #Our glass is two inches thick. #I wondered why it wasn't in the middle. #Or why it wasn't on the surface. #And we were worried that an 1/8 inch lip on there might be a little fragile handling. But we are convinced from here that it shouldn't be any problem with it. #That's an 1/8 inch? #Yeah. #And that's your aluminum sur- face, towards you there. #It seems robust enough just from our handling it. Obviously we would be much more careful with the actual mirror, than we have been with this. There has been no problem. #Good. #So, when Jack pointed out the other day that this aluminum dummy mirror that we are making, if we don't build the second beam will in fact go to Hawaii, to ?? camera. It's potentially a permanent part. Also if we were ever to pull one of the tent mirrors for any reason and wanted to continue operation, it could go into that slot. #Is that the first thing we actually fab- ricated that might be permanent? #Yeah. #All the collimator cell will be the second. #Actually we are starting the collimator cell, so that would be the actual.. We expect that a lot of the parts that we are making for this dummy mirror as far as the mounting system will be used on the actual mi?? part. I don't have any plans for changing it unless they don't ?? #Ok. Deimos structure? I don't know if there is too much to say here. #Well, of course conceptually wise we haven't changed anything. we are building a bulkhead to attach this collimator mirror to, for the model, and maybe we can test some of the concepts about stiffness and that sort of thing with that, but that is the only thing that is any newer than the last thing you heard. #Are we putting our drive disk into the model, or is our model going to stay being the model. #No. right now we are just hanging that wooden disk with some half inch screws which wouldn't support that. In other words, we are not rolling the drive disk on the support bearings, so to hang the drive disk out there whithout actually sitting on support, its just an extra couple of thousand pounds we can't support. I am not sure it would tell us anything. #Except that we now have something we could put real holes in and actually mount stuff. #Yeah, we would be able to do that. #It would be part of the part that is going to Hawaii. We would have bought that part already and machined it. #Yeah, I would like to be a little bit farther along on our design before we start buying things that big. #That expensive. #That big, especially because they are hard to hide later. #We can roll them off the hill. #We haven't established a lot of the design yet, we haven't got anything yet on the tv camera or any of that, I would like to get farther along before we start actually making viable hardware for the structure. #Now the tv camera design, except for the concept, we may not get to until after the ?? I like in fact to start to build the structure. So I am hoping.. #I think we need an optical design for the tv. #Yeah. The tv design actually happens real late in this on purpose because photometrics is not exactly stable in there use of tv camera, in fact we are building a tv camera ?? maybe we could use it. At least we leave the option open for something to happen. Yeah, but it still seems that I think one of the biggest holes in what we are doing is an optical design for a generic tv cam- era. #Well, we had one, and Jack was going to go order the camera, and we asked you and you said, don't do it until I've talked to you about it. This was all email and that is where it sat ever since. #You are not talking about the camera, you are talking about the lense. #?? the lense. #We were going to get a lense. #There is a smaller, less expensive lense. #The reason why I don't want to do that Brian is because of our tv also has a split viewing mode. I talked to Harlan about this, what I want to see is an unified optical design for the slit viewing mode and the offset guider tv. I think that the offset guider optical design by itself is in good shape. That is I think what you were referring to. If that's all there was to it, I think it would be a great idea to go off and get this cam- era and do tests and so on. #This is the first I have heard of this.. #Let's talk after this meeting. #We have a question about the structure since we are on that part. We did not do anything with Frank this past five weeks, should we be sending him a.. #I actually did hear anything back from him on the last package. So maybe. #Oh, you didn't? #Should we send him some photographs of what we are doing, maybe the collimator cell and the next cycle coming up. #Yeah I think that would be a good idea. #Has he looked carefully at the collimator cell design? Did he look at that previously and comment on it. Was he going to be reviewing our collimator our cell designs as well as our structures. I am not sure that he was. That is a lot of the scope of what we expected him to do. #Right, that is what I mean. #Well maybe we won't send him any pictures. #Well, the caterpiller, I think he would be interested in. #The caterpiller absolutely. #I don't mind showing him these things, as far as consulting with him before we do anything... #Ok, electronics, we move on. #Of course, Sandy have you met Chris. #Hi Chris. #Hi. #Chris will step forward in elec- tronics as the new electronics engineer. #Not much has happened in electronics simply because we were waiting for Chris to come on board, and there is no hard work for us to start wiring, other than the calibration lamps which we decided to push off into the future sometime there has really been nothing ?? for electronics. #Does ordering the piesos have any impact on what you are doing? When they come in, of course, we'll build up any cable you need for them and set up any testing, whatever you need. I think it will impact maybe a couple of hours of someones time. #Ok. Software. #We had to do to refine the specifications that we need to store the image and are find- ing more and more word from the community at large who are doing other projects that our think ing is much like their thinking for how you store these very complex data products in a way that is still standard and yet handles all the new features that we want to add. Everyone seems to be heading in the same direction, including us. Which means, more importantly, that standard soft- ware packages are going to be heading in the direction to handle the kind of data the we put out, which will make everyone's life easier at the data reduction lab. Bob Kibrick sat down with dis- cussion on how fast pointing and alignment could be done readouts, subrastors, and so we have that scheme, and in reply to that we... I am pretty sure that we know how to take all those subras- tors and put them on the screen in such a way that you can see them all using only one image dis- play tool, rather than inventing two separate image dislay tools for Deimos. There's a little schematic sub diagram that says, of these tiled subrastor images, this one came from here on the slitmask and this one came from there so you can tell with two glances instead of oe glance which things are rotated which way from where you want them. #Why don't you discuss that, show me a little sketch of what you had in mind after this. #Ok. #More? #No. #So, as usual, the astronomers are not doing their job. Now I am back, Drew's not here. So, as soon as we are all in one place, we will start again. In the meantime I have been having discussions with Steve and Bob Kibrick about buying a computer, because I have a computer opportunity available to me from other funds, and so the issue has been how can we spend a bit more money probably from Deimos to give it enough memory and disk access speed to be really useful as a test platform for manipulat- ing these huge images. So I am thinking with roughly 11 or 12 thousand of extra money out of the Deimos pot, plus 34 from me, we will wind up with a really powerful computer that is expandable to one gigabyte of memory. Every Deimos image is 128 Megabytes. #So this is actually taking a big load off of my mind. Because I was concerned that at a stage when we need to do software development we really wouldn't have a platform or tool that will do that but I think we will be able to solve that. #And that is the one other thing that I had to report on, is that we took a quick look to determine whether or not there are any major obstacles in getting the overall set of Keck software for device control and stuff running on Alpha, rather than on Sun hardware. That is a good point. There are no visable obstacles, the shared library scheme works for all practical pur- poses in exactly the same manner so that the keyword setting and enquiring scheme can work exactly the same as it does in HIRES LRIS and everything else that is out there. #Right. So I expect that Ted Asox is tossing out some options now I expect that we will place an order within a couple of weeks for this big machine. #Great. #We have figure out where to put it. #This is a DEC Alpha that Bruce is talking about. They have eight of them at UC London they just have a whole bunch of these guys. He loves them and he is asking to have one if he starts working here in octo- ber. #Well there are big ones and small ones, this is a big one. #Bruce's is sort of a watered? time bomb?? It is not obvious that engineering can actually support such a machine. So you are talking about forty six thousand dollars for a machine. #All together about that, with periferals. #This is not a machine that a person would want to sit at. This is something that you can turn into a real octopus monster. #Yeah it has lots of slots. #Add-ons.#It goes into a room by itself, that kind of machine? #No it'll fit onto desktop, but the number of things that you can add into it is a lot greater than you would need for running autocad. Well that is one of the problems, it doesn't run autocad. #But there is a problem. Everything else he ran in London, like the planet elvis stuff runs well on it. #They are expensive though, it sounds like. #Well this is a very big one. The top of the line, short of actually going to a server, which actually is a poorer, smaller machine, but mechani- cally more robust. #Next item, quarterly report numer four, I think is all but there, #Practically on the floor. #We have to the budget information there, and it corresponds now, in fact this morning to what I had projected it to be, which means our cross-checking does work to some extent. It was good to actually find out. #You left the budget information out of your software? #Out of the old software, see we are just reporting June. Next time is going to be the challenge. #Can we start on this early in some way, or... #In going through the process this time, I made a list of all of the things that I need to have Dee and Claire do so that we can be sure that we are going to get usable information out of both systems next time. They are supposed to start dumping from the banner system into our system in september. Well, actually this month, but I don't beleive this month, so september. #The next report may be late too, if they just start... #That is what I am concerned about, I wonder if we have any leverage to get this process going a little sooner, they know that we are serious and urgent and all of that. #I am kind of dogging it because I haven't even seen anything as yet. No one, as yet, mind you, has seen one single report out of this system, and that's really.. #Over and above Marleen's reporting I actually go and look at things. So I don't have that information either. #Well, you have, we are double entry. So I at least feel safe about that. In that it is going in to our old system as well as the new system, but there are even some problems with that. For instance we can't pay invoices, only accounting can pay invoices and then tell us that they have been paid. So that stuff has to come out of their system. #Prospectus, I guess there is one and you are going to attach it to the quarterly report. #Yeah I should have brought it down, I'll run right after we break, I'll bring prospecti, a couple of them and also this Milton Roy ?? #So we will distribute it with this quarterly report, is that ok. #I think that is ok, I have a copy for you as you duplicate the quarterly report. #And prospectus slash fund raising is moving forward, Lynn Stoops and Joe Calmies are starting to talk to people who we want to have engage in a brainstorm- ing session. This is going to be sometime in September, this is going to hosted by the man who was hosted by the former President of the UC Foundation who was very excited about Deimos and wants to lead a fund raising effort. #Is that the ?? #Haliday? ?? the same. #Yes, wasn't that fun. #Yes, interesting. #He liked all of us. #Ok, the cdr is the next thing, and it is on this agenda only to indicate that now is the time that we have to start preparing for it. #I think what we need is a separate meeting. Is that what you were thinking? #Yes. #And soon. #Within a month or some- thing. #Oh, much sooner. #Ok, if there's enough people, I am not sure theres.. #Well maybe we can have a couple separate sessions if there is a problem of getting people together. But I don't think we need everybody in one big room. #Ok, well, certainly before the next team meeting, we need to have a separate meeting. #Why don't you and I talk about this today, and we can decide two or three little groups to come together and people can start working on people's schedules to set up these meetings. #The focus of the CDR is quite different from the PDR in that our intent is to attract and invite people who are interested in the details rather than talking about the philoso- phy ... design details the fact that we want to start both acquisition and fabrication very soon thereafter. Ok, schedule. My scheduling tool is currently inoperative, and should be up and run- ning sometime this week I hope, Of course what happened is that engineering switched over from Solaris two weeks ago, in doing so we introduced a new Sparc 5 to our system which apparently communicates much too fast for the network that we have and we go down fairly regularly. So we are fighting that problem rather than reinstalling my scheduling tool, which I think is appropriate, for five or six people that can't work... Other than that. #You said in the quarterly report that you thought as of the end of the quarterly we are still on schedule. Is that still the case? #Yes, we are still expending labor at a rate less than we would expect, but that's solely to do with the fact that the software was projected to start much earlier than it is in fact going to. #One of the comments in regard to the budget, which is that I will here of course tomorrow and monday and tuesday, but I will be leaving wednesday for about a week, so any adjustments that you would like to make to this budget for your own purposes, please let me know so that I can make them. #Well good, I was going to look at them today. #Yeah, and on the budget, Marleen has a summary that is been pre- pared since our last meeting. ?? #Right, so what is the next big thing that is coming through the door? As far as expenditures?# Yeah, aside from this computer. #I was going to say your com- puter. #Really, I think at this point the milestone is really the CDR and after that then we will have a number of major expenditures, we'll start buying materials for just about everything. So that is going to be a big upswing in your schedule as far as the business office is concerned, and you talk- ing about what date, I had better.. #The CDR is scheduled right now for November fifteenth. But you can anticipate it is going to be the end of the year before we finish the review, and that is what the schedule is like. #OK. #So, our major problem right now is our silgard. We can think that this is not insolvable because we can always go to oil, but we prefer not to. #That was a major finding this weekend. #Right. #Ok. #Wait, you can have the, but I need to schedule the ?? coffee in another place, which I'll take care of and is the fourteenth ok, the thursday before the next team meeting? That's our normal monthly schedule. #Yeah, I keep saying that I want to have them more regularly, but I... #I don't think so in this case, we are going to have a lot of little other things in the mean time. I think we will be ok. #September 14th, is that what you said. #I think you can anticipate after that fourteenth meeting that these meetings are going to pick up in intensity because we will be moving into the CDR amongst other things. And being that it will be septem- ber, more people will be here. #Ok. So, let me quickly run right upstairs...[End of Tape.]